The Ephesians vss, do not say when after, but I think you could take it as when you believe, and sometime after that you receive…

And that belief is often translated from ginosko (sp?) Which is also often, “know” like the phrase “to know” your wife). It’s not a reasoned statement you are willing to voice to others, its a deep in your gut understanding. Like are being given a promise of his son, then being told to sacrifice him. Are fully.expected God to keep his promise even if his son was poured out on the altar. That is belief, like the parachute that doesn’t pause or hesitate before jumping. Most will hesitAte, did I forget anything?

Of you are born of god, you no longer are sinning. The vss on that point do not, in any.way.say, you aren’t accountable, or your sins are. Covered, its a hard, not sin, if you are born of him. It says if the spirit is in you, you aren’t in the flesh. It says if you walk by the. Flesh you won’t lose to temptation. Gal 2:20 Paul says, it is longer I that lives, but He who lives In me.

Who died here? Answer in col. 2:11who lived here? Answered in Romans 8:9.

That is a complete change. God does the changeing, the removal of the.sinful nature, flesh, the changing of our hearts and our minds, etc. What can He not do? Ephesians 4 says we are to be as mature, finished, perfect as He was on earth. Before you scold me, you better read the vss.

Well, I still have a sin nature,
I still sin, 1j 3…
I can not claim that removal of the sinful nature, so I can not claim to be born of god. yet!

I don’t worry to much about it, and I am not being flippant. But He accomplishes these thongs in me, even though he sends me on the path with no obvious help, and I.do the things that he uses to change me, teach me a new disciplin. Since it is his to do, I trust Him to do it. If he doesn’t, then I accept His judgement. Am I really going to argue with god? I have to accept who.and where I am, before my.spirit is weakened enough to surrender my cause to Him. ONLY THEN will the change begin. Blessed are the weak in spirit…. an example of a non weak in spirit?

Rich young ruler appears, rabbi what do I need to get eternal life?

Follow the…

However when you apply that str t interpretation to mat 5.48, 1 john 3:6, 3:9 and I van give a long list, they twist, wiggle and change their rules of exegesis.
The frustrating thing for me, that people, after generations makes the rumors an accepted misrepresentation. It’s frustrating in the.extreme to me.

Now, I.can’t apply this to the poster, I don’t know them. Bit my frustration was brought out by the poster. If that person ever comes back, I’d like them to comment on the.clearly stated fact that if you still sin, you don’t know Him, have not seen Him, and are not yet born of God. Or the verse that says of you are indwelled by the Spirit , you are no longer in the flesh..thus if you are still in the flesh, you are nt yet in the.spirit.

Good thoughts! I love the simple message which actually is a huge part of what I’ve been trying to get at. I am overjoyed that you are 100% confident that you are saved as I wrote in Part 2 (which you should read): “This fact should not cast doubt on anyone’s salvation. God knows what he is doing even if we too often do not.”

My point is that when you “believed” you began “on the Way” – you started you Christian “walk”, but my goal was to show that the born again process is a process and that the Spirit comes after you believe (and usually after water baptism).

Ephesians 1:13-14 confirms what I said: you heard the word of truth, believed and then received the seal of the Covenant which is the Holy Spirit. When this passage is studied along side others you will see water baptism is also a key feature (Hebrews 6:1-2 where the Spirit isn’t mentioned specifically but “baptisms” are – notice the plural).

Thanks for the thoughts.
Derek Ouellette´s last [type] ..The Post After On the “NP”

Ephesians 1:13-14 (New International Version)
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

I believe we could bring more people to Jesus if we just taught the simple message of salvation. Everything else is about growing in our new found relationship. I believe that is what is meant by being “born again”. Just like a child we are now learning and growing.

Romans 10: 9-10 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

I don’t know. I’m far from an expert when it comes to scripture but I’m 100% confident that I am saved because I believe.

Blessings to all in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Further, Paul wrote in Gal 5:16 that, as the only example of HOW a person can repent from sin, if you WALK BY THE SPIRIT, not beside the spirit, but BY the spirit, you will not sin.

The word BY is english only, not in greek, it's added to make the sentence make sense, literally it's PERIPATEO PNEUMA. WALK SPIRIT. IF YOU WALK SPIRIT you won't hamartano. or Sin.

The point is, It's the SPIRIT that keeps you from sinning, it's the SPIRIT that is the catalyst for full repentance. NOT the person. A person can't repent fully, until christ has removed that sinful nature/ or flesh from the person in col 2:11. NONE OF THIS is what you have been taught. But I think you'll find your NT will fit more snugly together as you piece it's meaning together working under this assumptive paradigm as you research it.

So I find your interpretation of the mark verse to be, umm a bit short and causing contradictions not resolutions in the NT doctrines that were taught us.

Derek,

Until now I'm the only one I've heard talking about this blind spot in the church.

Consider explaining BAPTISM with the use of the LAVER before the blood at the tent of meeting. Had they gone to the altar and not been ritually cleansed in the water, they would have died. THEN as NOW the water doesn't magically blind GOD from our Sins. It's an action we take, to accept HIS promise, a contractual obligation with payment showing we accept the contract/promise, that he'll consider us unclean. In truth, to say it literally wiped your sins away would make GOD subject to the baptism, and he'd no longer be OMNIPOTENT. Same with the BLOOD Of Jesus. Without GOD'S promise that this WAS THE WAY, it would not have been the way.

Jesus was the gate to God. Being sanctified…

My best guess is that you have jumped to this conclusion because of the way Mark words his sentence: “repent and believe”. But that makes no sense at all. Ask yourself, how can someone repent if they don’t first believe?

As I recently read a scholar say (commenting on Acts 2:38):

The need to believe is implied both in the command to “repent” and also in the command to “be baptized”.

This passage in Acts best illustrates my point. After Peter finished delivering the gospel, the scriptures record:

When they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do”. – Acts 2:37

While the word “believe” is not used, they obviously did believe Peters message (agreed?), or else their question makes no sense. Peter responds:

Repent and be baptized every one of you… and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. – Acts 2:38

Peters response to the crowd only makes sense in light of the fact that they believed his message! So there is the order spelled out for us nice and neatly:

1) Believe (verse 37)
2) Repent (verse 38)
3) Be Baptized in keeping with repentance
4) Then (only then) will you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

At that point will you be fully born again.

Mark 1:15 is simply stating the fact that if one does not “repent and believe” he will not be saved. Mark is not giving us a particular order.
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